The VC Bar

Welcome to the Volcano Café bar, a place for all things on or off topic and inane ramblings. There has been a need of late to find a place better suited to various theories, long comments and enthusiasm. This page will be less moderated than the main article pages and cleared out every month (this may change depending on use).

Have fun and don’t forget to tip the barman 😉

863 thoughts on “The VC Bar

  1. Off any topic, but seeking advice from Geolurking, please. Our daughter’s going to Orlando next month and catching the bus to Jacksonville for a wedding. It’s her first visit the USA and I haven’t been to Florida for decades. She’s 24 and fairly well travelled (China, Philippines, India).
    As a sort of local, any tips or advice for her please?
    Thanks!

    • Orlando is on the other end of Florida for me. As for Jacksonville, It’s been 20+ years since I was there. The standard rule of thumb applies. Stay alert to your surroundings and always have a way to contact the authorities for help if needed. FHP and DOT are both tied into common dispatchers…. if out along the interstates that desk can be contacted via *547 without going through 911. I’ve used that to report roadway hazards such as couches or chairs on the roadway. One nice thing that DOT does is their “Road Ranger” service. These guys bop around on the roadways looking for stuff that is out of he ordinary, such as disabled vehicles etc. I even had one stop and give me a bottle of water when I croaked my differential. Road Ranger vehicles are clearly marked. Most are white pickup trucks that have retractable signage on the roof to direct traffic if needed. “Road Ranger” will be in large letters on the side. Their service is free. They can’t tow, but they are in direct radio contact with FHP/DOT.

      Due to an unfortunate set of incidents several years ago, pretty much all of our rest areas now have security officers at them after dark.

      The area you mention is generally our tourist region. Not trying to play it down, it’s also where (in my opinion) the less than optimal intelligence Floridians live. Most of the time, when you hear a Floridaman tale, it is typically that part of the State. {Hillsborough County is where two guys got arrested for armed theft of an eggbeater}

      At Jacksonville, a few of the outlying beach towns enacted strict noise ordinances due to the thundering audio from vehicles.

      To be honest, I am pretty much a paranoid and stay away from that side of Florida, (and actually, away from people in general) so my opinion is heavily skewed. A friend of mine used to live down around Orlando and I never heard of any bad tales from him.

      If she can handle the Philippines or India, she should be fine. I can’t really compare it to China since I have only been to Hong Kong and Kowloon. Some ability to speak Spanish would be handy in South Florida, though English is standard throughout the state. Note; Tagolog has a lot of Spanish loan words and phrases. (Philippines).

      Side story: I was down at a Tag office near Panama City and was working on one of the clerks stations. A pair of guys were in there getting tag work done and being a bit unruly. One of them said something that I assume was quite rude in Spanish. One of the other clerks lit into him something fierce. She was Philippine but was quite fluent in Spanish… and was not a happy camper over what the guy had said.

      Buses… our bus companies are not what they are in other countries. Be cautious around bus depots. Chartered (tour) buses are a different matter, I have no experience with them at all. Cell coverage across the state is pretty good with the exception of Blackwater State Forest, but that is up in my end of Florida. I would recommend carrying a fully charged back-up battery pack so she can recharge her phone if needed. 5500 mAhr power packs are available at many retailers. (even Walmart) I keep one with me when driving though I also have a 18 Ahr AGM battery with a USB charging adapter that I cobbled together just to see if I could do it. (It’s good for a huge number of charges) I mainly use it to power my endoscope and phone when looking for cables inside of walls.

      • Thank you very much. I appreciate you taking the time to help!

        She’ll be fine – she has her head screwed on her shoulders. but it’s a good many years since I was last in the US and it is so easy for us Brits to think the US is the same as the UK when, in fact, it is quite a different culture and different set of attitudes.

        I’ll pass the information on to her!

  2. Some tremor showing with two deep quakes near Pahala.
    2019-09-26 17:14:56 2.6 40.5
    2019-09-26 17:11:53 1.8 48.8

  3. just a follow up to Lurk: How warm was it? Who was right”er” ? Your 93 or my 100? Hope You are having a good Friday… it’s nippy this morning 30 degrees… Grandkid went to school in shorts(basketball length)… didn’t fight it/ Alaska kids feel hotter and many of them wear shorts in much cooler weather. It’s weird. Best!motsfo

    • Showing 93 right now…. but with the humidity, the heat stress temp is 99. Actually the humidity is a bit lower than norm at about 45%.

    • Actually, today is one of those pristine days that tourists regularly flock here for. In a word, “glorious”.

      I don’t have the actual read on the flags at the beach, but based on prevailing winds, I think the risk of rip currents are low.

      (On shore winds typically cause rip-current conditions.)

      A rip current is caused by water piling up near the beach. At some point, that water will find a channel and flow back out to sea. Areas of the surf without or with less breakers are typically were they are at. If you ever find yourself in one, swim parallel to the beach to get out of the rip. Even if you are an Olympic class swimmer the rip will carry you away from the shore if you try to fight it. Once you are out of the rip, the prevailing waves will assist you in getting back to the beach. Failing that, use your effort in staying afloat and signaling for help. Having a flotation device helps considerably. Don’t panic and leave it trying to get to shore.

      • Note: There is no “Freakville” in Florida as far as I know… it’s just the name of my home neighborhood that I set into my phone. It’s nowhere near as freaky as SoCal, but its more of an homage to when I lived in San Diego. BTW, National City California is where Attack of the Killer Tomatoes was filmed.

      • I know there are “surf” people on this blog and likely have more experence than I. If any of my info is wrong, feel free to chime in. It’s better to have good data than just some guys opinion, so embarrassing me is not a problem. Just because I live in Florida, that does not make me an expert.


        Unrelated “Jerk” move I saw a friend of mine do while fishing for Spanish Mackerel. The quay wall we used to fish off of was next to a small marina. If a guy came out in his boat and maliciously cut across our lines, my friend had no compunction about flipping open his bail and letting the boat take 300 to 400 feet of monofilament on his prop. In our case, if the guys prop took all of the line, he would likely have a small bait fish wrapped up in that tangled mess on his propeller for a bonus… plus 6 feet or so of steel leader just to make it more fun. (Steel leader is used to keep the Mackeral from “tail whacking” your line and snapping it. When a Mackeral hits your bait, the first thing it is gonna do is turn hard and flee. (6 foot leader since they can easily be 4 feet long)

        Monofilament since you can pack more line on your bail. The skill is in landing a large fish on light line. You need the extra length to play the fish and wear it down.

        $10 of Monofilament vs a pricey boat motor… the economics are on the side of the angry fisherman.

        WARNING: Pelicans are always a hazard. They will take your bait in a second if they get sight of it. Also another reason to use a 6 foot leader so your bait can swim at a lower depth and possibly not be spotted by the pelicans. Catching pelicans is no fun at all. (Been there done that, even got the BP Oil spill grease on my hands just to make it more disgusting trying to get my tackle back before releasing the bird.) At first I thought it had defecated on me. Also the last #@$@$ time I went fishing. (that’s only part of it… the guys I used to fish with have all died either by cancer or diabetes.) The cancer thing would have gotten me as well, but according to the Doc, I am still cancer free after the surgery. It’s been a year and a half now and I am on 6 mo follow-ups.

        • Very, very glad to learn you are still cancer free. I wish you all the luck for staying free of the b*stard. Take care now – and stay away from the pelicans. From what I remember they tend to fly in lines of 5-10. That’s 9 spare fishing rods you’ll need.

        • Best wishes on your health.

          Long ago and far away, my dad and I were spin-fishing off Menai pier, North Wales, when an athletic young man arrived and assembled a verrrry lonnnng beach-caster. Easily three metres beyond the *huge* reel, a clear metre of handle behind that. He did a nimble run, wheeeeeeeee, out went the ground tackle. I swear I saw it splash in mid-Strait. He gave it five minutes, began cranking. Reel refilled, he removed and creeled a nice flat-fish. Re-bait, repeat. Another fish. Re-bait, repeat. Another fish. His creel was filling nicely when, out in mid-channel, a yachty sails in on the rising tide.

          Kerplonk !! Half a pound of ground tackle through main-sail.

          Young man says something very, very rude in Welsh, cuts his line, is packed and gone within two minutes…

  4. When you are a really good guitarist, but you are on the same stage as a dark and hungry blues deity…
    This is how blues guitar duels should be. He has definitely crossed the crossroads.
    Have a nice weekend!

    • And the obvious question is how far across the crossroads did he go? All the way, complete with munching up the devil…
      Both parts of the Dueling Banjos played by one man on guitar, flawlessly, while he is supposed to give a master class. I guess the pupils gave up guitar playing forever.

  5. Really just discovered the best blog to discuss volcanology with people.
    One of the geoparks back in my own country, Datong Volcanic Field, was previously thought to be extinct almost 100 kyr ago based on K-Ar and OSL datings (Cui et al., 2010; Zhao et al., 2015). New radiocarbon dating of the best preserved scoria deposits has extended the eruption period into Holocene (Sun et al., 2019). Another potentially hazardous volcano is discovered.

  6. Been a bad day: I been in an accident ..
    almost crushed back skull

    The constant never ending rains here cause problems.
    Today I runned down the slippery stone stair outside,
    fell and hit my back head at full force in the rock.
    A huge 7 centimeter long and deep gash in my head and blood everywhere. Operation is already done with many stiches. All fine: I got away with concussion. Healthcare is cost free too : )

    I will be in hospital until tomorrow

    And now where is that …Carl article
    Carl where is it ? : )

  7. Flood and gas in Múlakvísl.

    Specialist Remark by IMO.

    “A small glacial flood is ongoing in Múlakvísl. High levels of gas pollution are accompanying the flood. The flood has not yet peaked, so a further increase should be expected. The electrical conductivity of Múlakvísl has increased gradually in the last two days and it is now around 270 microS/cm. The discharge of the river is high in relation to the time of year, but it is lower than the peak of summer melting. Floods of this size are well-known in Múlakvísl. High gas pollution accompanies the flood. IMO has a gas sensor at Láguhvolar, which is about 2 km from the edge of Kötlujökull. The highest gas concentration (H2S) of 20 ppm was measured there last night (30 Sep); this level is above the concern for public health. For that reason, it is unsafe to stop at the river or its source by the glaciers edge. If symptoms such as nasal burns or eye irritation occurs, leave the area immediately. The IMO, Civil Protection and first responders in the area will follow the situation closely.
    Written by a specialist at 01 Oct 18:37 GMT”

  8. Ongoing earthquake swarm 10 km under the summit of Kilauea, with very frequent events (mostly very small though). It has been preceded by a few 28 km deep earthquakes south of the summit so it seems to be a conduit pulse coming from deep, probably similar to the September 3 swarm..

    • Mauna Loa is joining in, also with very noisy seismographs. I was wondering about the weather

    • There is some rain over the islands from the east/NE, but not sure what this is at about 8:50.

      • Intriguing, it is remarkably similar to an event picked up by the seismometers of Kilauea in September 3 but this time it is being picked up by stations on the summit and N flank of Mauna Loa and Hualalai, it doesn’t show in Pahala or Kilauea. No idea what that might be or if it is volcanic at all.

        The earthquake graphs on the HVO page clearly show the 10 km deep swarm on Kilauea in yellow starting late on monday (yellow earthquakes showing up from earlier days are from other areas of the volcano, mostly south flank).

        Judging from the graph of Mauna Loa nothing unusual seems to be going on there.

    • Here is a live seismo from Kilauea. The tremor is seen across the island but is sharpest at Kilauea so presumably that is the origin. If the lake starts boiling, it is time to turn the tellie. Otherwise, a bit of refilling of the magma chamber.

        • That indicates inflation of the rift zone, I think. It is south of Pu’u’O’o (remember that one?)

          • With out them changing the scale on the instruments out there I don’t think we are seeing the small changes. JOKA, looks like it is also accelerating east, but it’s scale is .02 meters like the tilt so we can see it better. JCUZ looks like it is showing a change to the south (most likely part of the cause for the change in tilt) KAMO looks like it is up around 6 inches since November, NPOC is up around 8 inches in the same time frame.
            NPOC/JCUZ scale are still .1 meters for east and north, .2 for up.

          • Seems to be something localized in the Pu’u’o’o area because stations farther away do not seem affected. KAMO and NPOC have accelerated eastward while JCUZ has accelerated southward which creates the faster extension in the NPOC-JCUZ lenght, this suggests a more rapid inflation of Pu’u’o’o.

            At POO the ground seems to be tilting westward which could be due to a source of inflation perhaps just northeast of Pu’u’o’o to agree with the GPS data.

            However none of the GPS stations seems to indicate a faster movement upwards (compared to the rate of inflation since November) so I am doubting…

          • *KAMO and NPOC are moving faster to the west I meant to say, not east

      • Just noticed in the live seismo of Kilauea you posted, a new burst of Pahala tremor. Two events located:

        2019-10-04 18:39:24 M 2.3 37.2 km
        2019-10-04 18:34:05 M 2.3 32.8 km

        The 32.8 km seems too shallow maybe it doesn’t belong or will get relocated.

      • For me it is basically mind over matter. I don’t mind and they don’t matter. Besides, Homo Stultus has to have something to keep them occupied.

        This is mainly aimed at Instagram, but the genre is there.

        • All of the news in the past month makes me curse the fact that either God or evolution has not made high intelligence a basic trait in humans
          Perhaps I should make a Misanthrope blog to relieve my hatred of general humanity and curb my goals of making the entire earth bow to me and me alone.

        • My wife is in extended care due to stroke, she’s is coming back well and responding to therapy better than expected. Had an interview with the care coordinator Three things.
          1.She was utterly amazed we didn’t Facebook,skype or Twit.
          “How DO you communicate!!!?
          “Well phone, conventional E-mail and two cans on a long string.”
          Went over her head .
          2.What does she like? “Gardening, History, Genealogy.”
          “She’s quite found of the British Isles .Sending time there back in the 70’s” .
          “Where are the British isles?-never heard of them.”
          “Scotland Ireland England, Wales.” -I Said.
          “Oh!” I see.
          3.” What music does she like?” “jazz” I said.”Like Big Bands of the
          40’s?”
          I said :” No-Ray Charles, Ella Fitzgerald, Detroit Motown sound.”
          She gave me the most incredulous look-and said. ‘Who are they?”
          (Sigh.)

          Hopeless..

          \

          • Glad to hear Your wife is doing well with therapy… several friends have experienced strokes and some have come all the way back but they don’t remember the stroke and others not so well. Best! to You. Your Wife sounds like a very nice lady. (never heard of the British Isles???!!! that’s incredible and who on the planet hasn’t heard of Ray Charles and Ella? Was this person 12? nuts…

          • I hope the coordinator is better at providing care than at general knowledge. Sounds like a fairly typical case of the facebook generation. They are the first generation in a long time to be educated less than their parents.

          • Good luck to your wife, my grandpa had a stroke a few years ago and it really scared us
            Unfortunately when ever there is an abundance of anything, it will be considered less valuable the something scarce. Now that knowledge can accessed easier then ever before, it is not valued to the general populace.
            It is sad and infuriating that in this age that willful ignorance is primary drive for cluelessness no days.

          • Thank you all. My wife is a treasure and I hope to get her at least partially back to where she can come home enjoy our little home her garden, Mo,i and our Puppy dog. BTW
            wife is a true princess. She’s descended (direct) from
            Sophia of Hanover. :
            http://www.englishmonarchs.co.uk/hanover_12.html
            BTW there is more than a passing resemblance.
            Sophia was interested in native Americans. Wife is descended from Sophia’s gr . Granddaughter who married
            a big shot Lutheran bishop who thought it a good idea to emigrate to America and do a mission to the Natives.
            The Granddaughter was like #7 of eight children so
            she had to marry well or fend for herself.
            They ended up in North Carolina in Mecklenburg.
            And their kids married Cherokee…

  9. wish we had “Likes” on here; You would both get one…. i, for one, don’t have any trouble with FB but maybe that’s because my feed is extremely limited to: road conditions in the area by people who are actually on the road, bear trouble, forest fire updates, local earthquakes, local news conditions as in weather alerts, and the odd friends (You know who You are). i do have several select few i read: as Mick Kalber, Lady Gyebnar, Kirby Morgan,and Gijs to remind myself that the world can be beautiful. And a select few around the globe for on the spot reporting. Best!motsfo

    • and Helen and Diana and wish i hadn’t started naming names….. does this post make me look fat? Just asking for a friend….. 🙂

    • Just spoke to my Grandson, Turns out that he turned down an offer by his boss to assist in tower contruction up in northern Canada. His reason was the cold, but I noted to him that some stuff up there may want to eat you. He agreed and felt much better about his decision.

  10. Cannot wait until Grimsvötn does a surtsey style eruption in the caldera
    And later growing an effusive tuya constantly oozing thoelitic basalt.

    • Grimsvotn’s surtsey phase may last for less than a second. That’s a lot of potential horsepower for such a small body of water.

      • Not if the eruption last long enough
        The eruptions forms huge meltwater lakes and surtseyan activity
        Grimsvötns lake is huge and deep

        2011 and 2004 and 1998 all formed tuff cones in the meltwater lakes at the end of the eruptions.

  11. If You have Netflix there is a series “The Art of Design” and the first session has Olafur Eliasson on “The Design of Art” which talks about the volcanic design of the Icelantic or ‘Islandtic” venue building. i found the
    whole program fascinating. Just saying… Best!motsfo

  12. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FE_vGq3d7k
    Space – X is now building its Star – Ship!
    Elon Musks dreams are comming true.

    I wonder if its becomming real now…
    Musk is doing much more things than NASA ever do…
    But Musks toys also seems very rushed
    But they are indeed building a star – ship now that will take, humans to Mars and the moon.

    • Being a bit of a space nut, I take a lot of what Musk is doing with a healthy bucket of cynicism. He’s a great dreamer, an appalling deliverer. From what I have seen of his “starship” so far, it looks like an excessive use of tin foil and balsa wood. I am not impressed and I wait patiently to be convinced otherwise.

      I feel sorry for the mugs who will die in his attempts to get into space.

      Anyhow, just my personal opinion Jesper. I hope your head is fixed and you are better!

  13. Pu‘u ‘Ō‘ō Cone

    Change in distance between two stations near Pu‘u ‘Ō‘ō. A rapid increase in distance can be interpreted as inflation of the summit magma reservoir or Pu‘u ‘Ō‘ō magma storage chamber.

    • Some unusual deformation started to show up very abruptly at POO (the tiltmeter northwest of Pu’u’o’o) on September 28, so that appears to be when this started.

      It is hard to tell short-term changes in the GPS particularly given the way the data is ploted (and also given that the best positioned station, PUOC was swallowed up by the crater) but it starts to seem clear that the stations on the cone are moving up and away from Pu’u’o’o at some impressive rates due to rapid inflation.

      • JCUZ is moving up and south. That could be Pu’u’O’o but the rift also runs between it and the cone, so refilling of the rift may show up in the same way. Worth keeping an eye on. If the Kilauea conduit has collapsed, the new lava may be directed towards the rift.

        • NUPM and MALU uprift and JOKA downrift do not show any changes so it seems to be local to Pu’u’o’o and not the rift. A few days time will probably tell which areas are deforming and if the summit is reacting in any way.

          • Kilauea summit has stopped extending while Joka is moving, so the two are probably related. Do note that the change in Joka is much smaller than the changes that were seen at Kilauea: the change is around 2cm, while in Kilauea the changes are in 10s of cm.

          • It is true that the summit tilt seems to have lowered these past few days, possibly also around September 28, hard to tell with all the DI events.

      • Tiltmeter MOK at Mauna Loa also seems to show a change beginning about 28th Sept.

        Above: Tilt data from a site near the northwest rim of Mauna Loa’s summit caldera. The tiltmeter responds to daily and seasonal temperature fluctuations as well as possible changes in Mauna Loa’s magma storage system

        • The change is much smaller than at POO 1 microrad vs 7 but perhaps it is weather messing with stations far appart, time will tell.

  14. Phivolcs has raised Alert Level 1 over the Taal Volcano in Batangas on Monday after it recorded 87 volcanic earthquakes within a 24-hour observation period.

      • Small and shallow usually means settling of the edifice. The one at 8.5km depth makes things a bit more interesting. Would be interesting to hear Carl’s opinion. Probably nothing to start yodeling and playing lip banjo over just yet.

        • All the others are indeed very shallow, but I don’t remember ever seeing that many, or even that strong earthquakes at Hekla and for the moment it continues…

  15. And the Nobel prize goes to the Universe and to extrasolar planets. Another one for astronomy.

  16. I have a question for Albert

    Imagine that I am an astronaut on ISS spacewalk
    I have my Iphone with me outside and throws it at all force down to earth below.

    Will the Iphone go down to the atmopshere and burn up?
    Or will it travel down from ISS and just remain in orbit?

    • I think it will go into the atmosphere …
      in space there is no air resistance to stop it from moving down into the atmosphere.

      Its descending straight down
      But moving foreward at ISS Orbital speed

      So … it will burn up

    • Just wait one orbit and the phone will come back to you – from behind and further from Earth!. If you really want it to burn up (did you buy an extended warranty?), you need to throw it backwards along your orbit, with a lot more force than you can muster.

      • News is yammering about California fires again. Saw what appeared to be something akin to a DC-10 doing a retardant drop on the TV. quite graceful. It had a little pitch wobble during the drop, I’m guessing the pilot was adjusting to the load shift as the CG moved around.

        • DC-10 is correct made a good Tanker 11,500 US Gal. it’s got good power and
          surprising maneuverability. I’d crew one.I’m prejudiced when it comes to Douglas products..

  17. Extension across Pu’u ‘o’o cone:

    Inflation at Pu’u ‘o’o seems to be settling from the short-lived fast deformation these past few days. Looking at all the plots some things are now clear. 3 GPS and a tiltmeter located around Pu’u’o’o have shown swelling of the area seemingly centered under the cone over a few days starting on September 28-29, the rest of the rift doesn’t show any changes, neither do stations along the south coastline so that I would say the south flank probably had nothing to do with it (to rule out a slow slip event or similar).

    The question is now if this is related or not to the plumbing feeding the 1983-2018 eruption of Pu’u’o’o. A possible explanation would be that some magma has moved into the conduit under the cone but for now there is no other signal (like seismicity or a change in gas emissions) to back this up.

    Meanwhile the summit of Kilauea has inflated about 8 microrradians over the past 30 days, this is the same rate of swelling that has been going on since March. It looks that the inflation/30 day period has remained virtually unchanged through the Pahala actvity that started and peaked in late August, the 2 or 3 microearthquake swarms under the summit in September and the recent event at Pu’u ‘o’o.

    • Well this pulled Tesla and Townsend Brown together Tesla was a serious scientist. Brown, well
      never had a working prototype of any thing.No anti gravity, no flying saucers. Tesla’s problem was
      he was reclusive and a bit nuts.But a lot of his work was valid. Brown may have bee just nuts or a charlatan..
      When any one mentions the”Philadelphia Experiment.”- Head for the escape pod.. Again, no physical or documented proof..
      Data ….

      • That’s What I was thinking! I wasn’t too familiar with any of the purported claims and other issues with the documentary, I knew it was mostly bunk when I saw that most of the cited were authors and not scientist or historians.

  18. Yellowstone plume arises from beneath Baja California ??

    https://phys.org/news/2019-10-yellowstone-volcano.html
    Fair-use quote:
    “According to the model, beneath the Yellowstone volcano lies a so-called mantle plume: a chimney-like structure that reaches thousands of kilometres deep to the border of the Earth’s core and mantle. The origin of the plume lies under the Baja California, more than a thousand kilometers southwest of the national park. Evaluations of earthquake waves had already suggested something like this, but the idea of such a “mantle plume” did not fit in with the movement of the Earth’s lithospheric plates.”
    /
    open-access article at…
    https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1029/2019GC008490

    Also see:
    https://phys.org/news/2019-08-mantle-yellowstone-supereruptions-northern-california.html

    D’uh, who ordered THAT ??
    😉

  19. Airplanes and it’s whatnots…

    Albert yesterday sent me down a research into the fuel efficiency of an Airbus vs a truck on a kg of cargo. I misunderstood it and did the calculations based per passenger. And came to the rather surprising conclusion that an airplane will use half the amount of fuel if you are flying alone compared to driving a regular car.

    The reason I am interested in these things is that I am rational eco-nerd. We need to fly, and we all need to save the planet, so something must be done with the technology we use.

    The amazing thing with Volcanocafé is that we have experts in here on every imaginable subject, and as far as I know we have at least two very rare birds of experts in here. Pilots of large propeller airplanes.

    About a year ago I was spelunking about in regards of old discarded airplane technology. You wouldn’t believe how many good ideas has been discarded along the way because they didn’t solve yesterdays problems, but they often solve modern problems. This is often true for many things, people was not stupid back then, but they often solved the wrong problems for the time.

    Yesterdays problem was to fly passengers faster and cheaper, todays problem is to do so with less CO2 produced, and with less engine soot and CO2 being injected at high altitude. A modern engine is basically like a very dirty diesel engine being run at the worst possible spot in the atmosphere.

    To my surprise I found an airliner of yon olden days that is basically the solution to all of the problems. The Tupolev TU-114 used half of the fuel per passenger compared to an Airbus A350. The drawbacks were that it was noisy, and that it required about 25 percent longer flight time on a long-haul.

    The engines are basically glorified diesel engines. And if Russian tech in 1956 was transformed into todays diesel engine technology we would have a winner. A modern diesel engine using common rail, turbochargers and the whatnots, deliver 8 times as much power on half the amount of fuel. We could even easily make it into a hybrid-engine for take-off saving even further on the fuel.

    If we then add carbon-fibre hulls, improved wing geometries, the fuel consumption would be even lower. On top of that it would be possible to put filters on the engines to remove the soot, like we do on cars today.
    Since I basically know jack all about airplanes, I had to read up a lot, and discovered that modern airliners are slower than the first sets of jet airliners (to save fuel). So, with all that extra speed and modern propellers a modern TU-114 equivalent would only be ten percent slower, about as noisy as a regular jetliner, and would use ¼ of the fuel of an airliner per passenger and would inject far less soot and CO2 into the atmosphere.
    We have obviously not gone into the savings of upscaling the propeller plane to the same size as an Airbus A350, that would save even more fuel per passenger.

    Here’s what I do not get, it is impossible that nobody has figured this one out. Where did I go wrong in my calculations? Or are people just this stupid when designing airplanes. Over to the real experts for them to hammer me into the ground.

    • Make sure that the fuel of the plane is for the full journey, and not for cruising at altitude (take-off is thirsty work). Also check the weight of the plane itself (did they include the fuel?) and the load factor (airplanes normally quote for full load only). But yes, a car (with one person) and a plane (full load, per passenger) can be quite similar. Planes take much more fuel because they go further. And of course, trains are even better.

      I once calculated if you had 20,000 or so racing pigeons needing to get from London to Paris. whether it was more energy efficient to put them on an airbus, or give them all a bit of food and a map and let them get on with it. The two were quite similar. But the eurostar might beat either.

    • Care: TU-114 was half-sib to the TU-95 ‘Bear’, and as intolerably noisy, inside & out. Passengers were very, very grateful for the ample vodka served…

      ‘Tis said RAF, EU & USAF pilots who intercept ‘Bears’ remark on its noise– Within their own jets !!

      Study the ‘114, yes, but there are other factors.

      FWIW, IIRC, ‘Blended Wing Body’ aircraft totally trump conventional plan-forms for fuel options, efficiency etc, but no-one is building commercial designs. Trad designs have too much prior-art and production investment, and that’s before you consider regulatory issues.

      • There is a considerable difference in regards of noise level between the TU-95 and the TU-114, but it was still quite noisy as I mentioned above. Something that would be quite easy to solve with modern technology.
        I am not suggesting building a brand new TU-114, that would be daft indeed 🙂
        What I am thinking about was more about what a modern prop-plane with the same general philosophy would look like.
        What would for instance Airbus come up with? Or, for that instance Boeing, heavens know they need to come up with something stunning to overcome their bad reputation nowadays.

      • Those Russian planes had contra-rotating propellers – Maybe that’s what made them so loud? Yes, they’re supposed to rival jet engines in speed, but when you two sets of propeller blades spinning in opposite directions, they will become incredibly loud! I don’t doubt that Western fighter pilots were able to hear the Tu-95’s engines over theirs. Unsurprisingly, quite a few retired Tu-95 and Tu-114 pilots and other crew members more often than not end having to wear hearing aids.

        I believe this was one of many reasons why Boeing and McDonnell-Douglas abandoned the 7J7 and MD-94X projects (both were to have been equipped with those rear-mounted engines with blades at the rear known as “propfans”).

        • I should mention that the propfans on those experimental planes from Boeing and McDD’s were equipped with contra-rotating blades like those Russian planes.

  20. Whats the hottest active lava in the world right now?
    I woud guess Erta Ales thoelitic basalts ?
    For now I say Erta Ale

    Halemaumau and Puu Oo drained and is not in contest anymore..

  21. Both still “automatic”

    M 2.4 – 4km SSE of Pahala, Hawaii
    2019-10-19 10:04:09 (UTC) 19.166°N 155.456°W 73.0 km depth

    M 2.3 – 3km ESE of Pahala, Hawaii
    2019-10-19 10:04:21 (UTC) 19.197°N 155.450°W 33.3 km depth

  22. Lurk! What’s Your weather like?? Understand it’s not good now… How are You… Best!motsfo

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